SavingsTalk.com

briansol

Before Reading, Acknowledge that I, nor anyone, can guarantee ANY return on your money. Invest wisely, only after you've done research for your self.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been an avid coin collector since I was a kid. My father and I used to go to monthly meetings at a local coin group. Since I was about 10, I've had a pretty solid collection of coins.
While most of them weren't worth much, I spent a good portion of my paper route money on them each month.

As I got older and started making more money, I devoted more time and money into it once again.

And then 1999 came.

The US mint released the first editions of the 50-state quarter program. Out of no where, almost EVERYTHING doubled in price.

The coin market is set on supply and demand. There is a fixed number of issues for every coin made, never to be re-made later by law, and the number of collectors is growing every day.

Next year, the mint is releasing the Presidential Coin Dollar series
(Info: H.R. 902, Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005 ) along with a new 1 cent piece to replace the Lincoln Cent.

What's going to happen is that A) even more collectors are going to jump on because of the new Dollar series, but more importantly, B) the new penny.

Just like the old "wheaties" from 1909 to 1958, the "Lincoln Memorial" pennies will slowly fade out of circulation. Think about it- when's the last time you saw an old $20? There's at least 4 variations that I have seen in recent years that have replaced the former production designs.

Circulated coins aren't worth much.... and for pennies, especially recent year dates, they are worth about a penny. It's the uncirculated ones, the ones in OGP (Original Government Packaging), and the proof condition coins that always hold the most value.


If you have nothing right now and are considering jumping into the coin collecting arena, I will suggest picking up this year's mint OGP sets.
They have a mint set for both the Philly and Denver mints, along with 2 proof sets from San Francisco: a clad set and a 90% silver set.

Those 3 sets (the mint sets are sold with both mints as one unit) will run you under $100.

As for a return on your money, go try to purchase the same 3 sets from 1999 or 2001. You'll probably have to tack on a 0 to the end of that price. the 2004 sets are getting more expensive everyday too, and will probably reach the same price levels as the 99 and 01 sets in a couple years.

U.S. Mint Online Product Catalog

Check out item numbers

• U06
• V60
• P06

For the above collection I spoke of above. It's a nice entry into coin collecting.
Act fast though- once they sell out, they are sold out, and you will be forced to buy from dealers and private collectors at a price far above what the mint originally releases them for.

In later topics, I will talk about coin grading, grading services, what to buy, and what to avoid.

micah

well ive been giving thought to investing in coins for a long time now. probably ever since youve been talking about it on HS.
here in the last month ive decided to go for it. im planning on buying 50-100 bucks a month in coins.
what would you reccomend for such a plan? any good sites for specific info on the matter?

thanks

briansol

The best thing to do with that kind of budget is to get on the yearly releases.
you can buy direct from usmint.gov when the sets come out (2006's are currently on their way out, and 07's will be in soon)

the 2 proof sets (1 clad, 1 silver both from san fran)
the 2 mint sets (both clad, 1 each from denver and philly)
the silver mint-state (MS) silver eagle $1 coin
the silver Proof (PR) silver eagle $1 coin

over a couple months, that's well within your budget.

The best tool to have is the current Red Book
2007 Red Book- US Coin Prices

it gives street/dealer/wholesale pricing in all grades for all coins.

With this guide, you can tell what is a good buy, and what's a rip off.

However, its only printed once a year, and due to flucations in the coin market, its basically out of date the second its sent to the printers. The majority of the info is accurate and changes very little year-to year. but somethings spike out of no where. and no one can tell you that better than your self.
Just like stocks, you need to watch the market.
Follow the price of silver on a daily basis. there's charts everywhere just like stock trends.

there's 3 things that make a coin valuable.
- the metal is stamped out of
- the date/mint mark combo (supply)
- the condition

with 50-100 a month, it will take you several months to buy even 1 current gold coin, mostly due to the fact that gold is over 600 an ounce now...
platinum, forget about it.

but silver-- its well within your budget with its current melt around 13-14 bucks an ounce. its entirely possible to buy silver coins in good condition for merely double melt value.

When i was a kid, i bought tons of morgan dollars in 'very fine' to 'extra fine' condition for about $10-15 each for common date examples. Today, you're looking at 50-70 bucks for those same coins.

Silver was 4-5 bucks an ounce back then.
the coins aren't any more rare now then they were then for the most part...
but the silver cost went up, and with it, so does the coins' value.

in 1980, silver spiked to over $50 an ounce, and tons of people literrally melted down their coins for the melt price. their $10 morgan investment got them about $45 (morgans are just shy of an ounce of pure silver).
However, better-condition coins were not melted, because even with the spike, the value of the coin was still worth way more than the melt value.

its all about holding on to it, and waiting for the right time to sell.

buy low
sell high.

briansol

also, if you can, always buy certified coins.

Certified coins are slabbed by a 3rd party grading service. There IS a premium on these coins, but there is NO question as to the coins' grade. anyone can try to sell a VF coin as an XF coin, and without a proper non-bias grade attached to it, you may get taken.

NGC and PCGS are the ONLY two companies you should trust for grading. All the rest, are 'encapsulation services' at best, and their grades are not only meaningless, but are HIGHLY inflated. Moreover, most collectors know this.

an NGC MS69 will sell for MUCH MUCH more money than an IAG MS70, even though the MS70 is technically the better grade... but theres a damn good chance that ms70 would grade to an ms67 at NGC...

micah

well looks like a got alot of reading to do :P
how do you feel about buying coins off ebay? any trusted favorite sellers you have?
ive been checking out usmint.gov, doesnt seem all that expensive, i could buy a couple sets a month.

briansol

i do buy off ebay a lot. There's no real coin stores around here...

but only from a select few power sellers.

eBay My World - carrieafl
eBay My World - super_silver
eBay My World - upstatecoin

micah

so for the little amount im going to spend would you recomend buying us mint sets every month or maybe snagging 1 or 2 higher dollar coins off ebay per month?

im starting out small because i want to learn as i go, dont want to make a huge purchase and it wind up being a bad one.
this is an attempt for me to diversify

briansol

and in diversifiying, don't buy a lot of the same item

i generally buy 2-3 of each mint/proof sets a year. that way if they get stupid expensive, i can sell one or 2 and keep one in case it still climbs.

its also a hobby for me... not just the money. if i buy 3, chances are, i'm keeping 1 for life. the other 2, i can play with, sell, trade, etc and not have a whole in my collection.


you will soon find that there are rare old coins and there are common old coins.

try to stick with stuff that isn't Clad... real metals like silver/gold/plat will always be worth more on a coin for coin basis (year/mint mark excluded of course)

pre 1964 dimes, quaters, and halves are 90% silver. some quarters and halves through the 60s are 40% silver.

as always, ask first, buy later.

micah

where do you keep your coins?
i was thinking about a safety deposit box, but it wouldnt hold up to the sheer amount of coins im currently planning on getting over the next few months. that plus im not sure what kind of fees my bank charges for them, and for how little im investing it just may not be worth it.
now im thinking about a safe. my house has never been broken into and i dont see it happening, but better safe then sorry.

briansol

i have a safe bolted to my floor in my closet which i keep burried under misc shit so as to not appear to be a safe, but a stack of clothes.

similar to this..
Security Safe with Electronic Keypad - Sentry Safe - V560 - Sentry Safe, Fire Safe

requres both the passcode AND the key (the passowrd allows the key to turn)

its full though. i need another one

titan22

are pre-64 coins actually worth more than face value?

briansol

on the street, no. No one really knows any better...
but to a collector, yes.

The reason they stopped using silver in the coins is simply that the price of the silver content had reached a point where it was worth more than the face value of the coin.

Today, an ounce of silver is just under $14.
a quater, contained roughly .2 oz of .90 fine silver
which by today's value makes a pre-silver quater worth a little over $2.50 in simply melt value.

the same thing happened to the penny. they went from copper and other cladding to zinc and cladding.

back in the day, a silver dollar contained a dollars worth of silver... about 90% pure silver in the coin, and weighing in just over an ounce (30 grams or some thing like that).
and the $20 gold coins... those were worth 20 bucks in gold.
today, its about 650 bucks in gold.

today, a silver dollar is about 13 dollars worth of silver.

briansol

funny looking back on a month old post.... silver is now around 14.50, give or take the hour.

so, you effectively earned 50 cents an ounce in a month. not a bad deal at all. no taxes when you sell 'em.... no worry about the 'company' doing bad (face it, if the USA goes under, we're screwed anyway lol)

Blanco

St. Gaudens $20 gold coin. Good investment or would a double eagle be better? I'm looking at gold coins at MorganMint.com. I'm also ordering a catalog from Monaco Rare Coin to maybe buy a sunken treasure coin or two.

I still need to get a platinum eagle.

briansol

$20 gold coins ARE double eagles :P

eagle = $10

The st gaudens are uber rare and with it, comes the price tag.

The vast majority of them are simply out of most normal people's price range.

St Gaudens $20


hell, one sold for 7.6 MILLION dollars.
1933 Gold Double Eagle - World's Most Valuable Coin - Most Expensive Coin

IMO, id you're looking to buy a gold coin in the near future, this is the one to get.
2007 $50 American Buffalo Gold Coin, 24K Gold, NGC Certified MS70 Early Release - $50 gold buffalo at Shop At Home

last years coins have already doubled in price. And this year, the mint is making more gold coins (nearly double the variety) so the odds are that the mintages will be far less on this coin than last years.... which means come 2008, this very well may tripple.
plus, the cost of gold is going up and up. last year, it was $100 less an oucne.



as for the platinum....

i told everyone to jump on this, and no one did.
reference:
1st smart investment of 07 - Hondaswap

and now, just about a month later, its $100 more expensive from the same place.

i got mine.... no one else did. I tried.

2006W Burnish Die $10 Platinum Eagle, NGC Certified MS70 Early Release - platinum, $10 platinum eagle at Shop At Home



2006 W EAGLE P$10 EARLY RELEASES MS 654

























228
426
just 654 coins have been graded in the early release pedigree. This coin is stupid rare. And with out the pedigree, theres still under 800 of those.

700 people in the WHOLE WORLD can own this coin. THATS IT.
the rarest of the rarest old coins, like the 1909 S vdb penny, has over 4000 graded examples, with the vast majority under ms64 in grade....

for counter point, the 07 $10 plat in 70 sells for 299.

Blanco

Oooooh. That grading site is exactly what I've been looking for...I just didn't know it!

This is the St. Gaudens I was thinking of. Not much info, though. Oh, and I meant the double eagle that just has the head on it.
Morgan Mint

Or maybe something from here.
Morgan Mint

Or maybe even something from the SS Central America. It'd be cool to have a coin made from California gold rush gold. I'll probably have to wait on that though.

I've actually looked at the buffalo coin a few times and actually saw it on shop at home just an hour ago. That with the '07 plat eagle should be a good start to my investment collection.

briansol

yup yup. both those links are dead for me... looks like their site is down.

but you can't go wrong with buying 07 bullion right now. it's only going to go up.

Blanco

Check this out. (1/2 oz) Platinum Eagles

What's the difference?

briansol

different years, different grades.

"Brilliant Uncirculated" is uncertified, and is the opinion of the seller that it is better than MS63.

NGC MS70 = NGC graded to perfection, MS70
PCGS MS-69 = PCGS graded to just a hair under perfection

MS = mint state (ie, not proof, those are PR)
70 is the max rating possible.

ncg and pcgs are the 2 companies to trust for certified coins ONLY.

The 2006 is way less minted than the 04's, which is why it is more expensive.
but, the real kicker is the 2006W which were minted on burnished dies. Those are the real pot of gold for the 2006 series.

Blanco

Ah, I wish I would've had the money last night. There was a 2007 MS70 for $860.

Blanco

Sweet. I just got my 2007 MS70 First Strike Buffalo for $866 from BlanchardOnline.com. My account rep is looking for the '06 Plat Eagle in MS70 for me. I'm also going to pick up a 1908 St. Gaudens with no motto, depending on what the price of the plat eagle is I'll get either an MS63 or 64. I also just found out that my lady has a stock option for her company that will give us an instant profit of considerably more than 50%. So I'm putting about $3k into coins and $2k into stocks, that should be a nice base to start out with.

briansol

ummm,, how? there are no 'first strike' pedigree's this year. The only pedigree is "early releases"

is it ngc?

Blanco

Heh. My bad. The picture's of an '06.

The “Perfect” Buffalo – A Gold American Buffalo graded MS70 by NGC

Blanco

Speaking of the '06. I just got a 2006W Buffalo in PR70 (NGC) for $1,099 and a 1997W $10 Plat Eagle still in its case for $169 I'm going to send the '97 to NCG and if I get super lucky it'll be worth $5250 or just $200 otherwise. That one's really fun. The suspense! The thrill! If nothing else the '06 Buffalo is worth twice the purchase price. I got these from APMEX.com.

I still waiting on the broker from the Blanchard to get back to me on the 2006W $10 Plat Eagle. Maybe an '04W but if not, I'm going to ahead and get the St. G. The no motto isn't really a big thing now, but I have a feeling it might be in the future. That apmex place even has the 1908D both with and without motto. If I had another $3600 to spend on coins I'd pick those up.

Blanco

Ooooh. The '07 Buffalo just came in. This thing fully rocks. The '06 Buffalo and '97 eagle don't ship out for another two days still, so they should be here next week. I'll get a pic of all three then.