SavingsTalk.com

TaxGuy · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations. -- Deu 20:10-15 [64] Chavel 1967, v.I, 200f. The Bible references are Deuteronomy 20. There are two types of war applicable to the 21st Century believers : 1. milhemet hova (obligatory war) 2. milhemet reshut (optional war) This obligation is commented by Rabbi Chavel: "This Commandment ... will be better understood in the light of the following passage from the 'Mishneh Torah': ' We are not to engage in war with anyone whatever unless we [first] proclaim peace to him; [this is applicable to both] an optional and an obligatory war; for it is said, When thou drawest nigh a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it (Deut XX, 10). If [the inhabitants] accept the offer of peace... we are not to slay a soul among them, and they merely become tributary, for it is said, [All the people ... therein] shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee'." (Ibid.) *** OT COMMAND BY THE LORD OF ABRAHAM : *** Step 1 --- Give them the option of peace (to become believers) Step 2 ---- If they want to keep their religion, they must pay the Tribute (Head Tax) Step 3 ---- If they deny the above two options then kill them all or enslave them. In other words, if the city's inhabitants object to being subdued/enslaved, they have to be slain nevertheless. Also sparing their life directly contradicts Negative Commandment 49 (see note [65])."We must not make a covenant with idolaters, to agree on keeping peace with them or accept them practising idolatry, because it says (Deut 7:2) Thou shalt not make a covenant with them. Either they give up idolatry or they are killed. And it is forbidden to pity them, since it says (ibid.): Nor shalt thou shew mercy unto them. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/guido_deimel/judaism.html#46 The above references the command from the OLD TESTAMENT which according to Judaic law is applicable for all time and for all believers. /// Were the Muslims the only ones who were able to implement these divine favors ? .

Alex3 · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

Shalom.

Max · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

The Mosaic law, which this is part of, was for a certain people, at a certain time and place. It is not for everyone. The Christian is under grace, not law. We are not bound by Mosaic law unless they are repeated in the New Testament as a rule or law for believers.

taxhour · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

Did he say he was going to give his 1967 Chevy SS to the Lord?

wiezly · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

Not so, not ALL, time nor ALL, believers, and you saying this, does NOT make it so~~!!!!!!!

10-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#1
TaxGuy Greenhorn Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20 Rep Power: 5	Why does the Bible say the believers should go city to city offering conversion, peace or Tribute (taxes) ? When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. <br />And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. <br />And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: <br />And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations. -- Deu 20:10-15<br /><br />[64] Chavel 1967, v.I, 200f. The Bible references are Deuteronomy 20.<br /><br />There are two types of war applicable to the 21st Century believers :<br /><br />1. milhemet hova (obligatory war)<br />2. milhemet reshut (optional war)<br /><br />This obligation is commented by Rabbi Chavel:<br /><br />"This Commandment ... will be better understood in the light of the following passage from the 'Mishneh Torah': '<br /><br />We are not to engage in war with anyone whatever unless we [first] proclaim peace to him; [this is applicable to both] an optional and an obligatory war; for it is said, When thou drawest nigh a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it (Deut XX, 10). <br /><br />If [the inhabitants] accept the offer of peace... we are not to slay a soul among them, and they merely become tributary, for it is said, [All the people ... therein] shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee'." (Ibid.)<br /><br /> * OT COMMAND BY THE LORD OF ABRAHAM : *<br /><br />Step 1 --- Give them the option of peace (to become believers)<br /> Step 2 ---- If they want to keep their religion, they must pay the Tribute (Head Tax)<br />Step 3 ---- If they deny the above two options then kill them all or enslave them.<br /><br />In other words, if the city's inhabitants object to being subdued/enslaved, they have to be slain nevertheless. Also sparing their life directly contradicts Negative Commandment 49 (see note [65])."We must not make a covenant with idolaters, to agree on keeping peace with them or accept them practising idolatry, because it says (Deut 7:2) Thou shalt not make a covenant with them. Either they give up idolatry or they are killed. And it is forbidden to pity them, since it says (ibid.): Nor shalt thou shew mercy unto them. <br /><br />http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/guido_deimel/judaism.html#46<br /><br /><br />The above references the command from the OLD TESTAMENT which according to Judaic law is applicable for all time and for all believers. <br /><br /><br /><br />///<br />Were the Muslims the only ones who were able to implement these divine favors ?<br /><br />.<br />

10-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#2
Alex3 Piggy Bank Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 80 Rep Power: 5	Why does the Bible say the believers should go city to city offering conversion, peace or Tribute (taxes) ? Shalom.

10-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#3
Max Piggy Bank Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 67 Rep Power: 5	Why does the Bible say the believers should go city to city offering conversion, peace or Tribute (taxes) ? The Mosaic law, which this is part of, was for a certain people, at a certain time and place. It is not for everyone. The Christian is under grace, not law. We are not bound by Mosaic law unless they are repeated in the New Testament as a rule or law for believers.

10-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#5
wiezly Greenhorn Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 30 Rep Power: 5	Why does the Bible say the believers should go city to city offering conversion, peace or Tribute (taxes) ? Not so, not ALL, time nor ALL, believers, and you saying this, does NOT make it so~~!!!!!!!

10-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#4
taxhour Greenhorn Join Date: Aug 2006 Age: 27 Posts: 20 Rep Power: 4	Why does the Bible say the believers should go city to city offering conversion, peace or Tribute (taxes) ? Did he say he was going to give his 1967 Chevy SS to the Lord?

SavingsTalk.com

Your guide to saving money and making smart investments!